Something to keep my mind busy! AKA LED project

[Chew]

I'll give them a bell in the morning! How would I get a decent looking and strong joint at the corner?

45 degree cuts and glue.

I'd never get that neat enough to be happy with it! It'll be on show above my tank and stupid little things like that would niggle away at me! I'll ask Nylacast when I ring as they may be able to do it!

[dreamer]

I'll give them a bell in the morning! How would I get a decent looking and strong joint at the corner?

45 degree cuts and glue.

I'd never get that neat enough to be happy with it! It'll be on show above my tank and stupid little things like that would niggle away at me! I'll ask Nylacast when I ring as they may be able to do it!

If they can't do it Chew, do you have a double glazing company locally who make their own units? They are the experts at mitering and gluing plastic structures...may even have an extruded section that they use that would be just the job for you. Think small window frame, top opener or similar, and you are halfway there

Cheers, Dave

[Chew]

Not got round to contacting the plastics company today.....work just got in the way......but I did get the drawings done for the potencial aluminium prefab so they are sent off and expecting the quote back tomorrow!

I'm not sure I'm keen on double glasing white as the colour of the unit! Everyone will think its an Apple I-Light On a more serious not all good ideas and suggestions guys!

[dreamer]

Not got round to contacting the plastics company today.....work just got in the way......but I did get the drawings done for the potencial aluminium prefab so they are sent off and expecting the quote back tomorrow!

I'm not sure I'm keen on double glasing white as the colour of the unit! Everyone will think its an Apple I-Light On a more serious not all good ideas and suggestions guys!

....Know what you mean, but double glazing uPVC does come in various shades of brown as well....in fact, you could have a splash guard with leaded effect if you wanted

Thing is, they will have mitering jigs, or circular saws with 45deg angle cutting fittings....and they will be able to glue the parts together for you beautifully...look mum, no joins

Cheers, Dave

[Chew]

Are you syre they glue them and don't ues brackets on the corners? Just looked at one of my windows and it has metal brackets on the corners!

[dreamer]

Are you syre they glue them and don't ues brackets on the corners? Just looked at one of my windows and it has metal brackets on the corners!

No Chew, they glue them. Not sure what your metal brackets are....you sure you haven't got Crittall metal windows Most uPVC windows do have an internal galvanised steel box section for strength, but there is not usually any external evidence of it

Cheers, Dave

[Chew]

I'm a I've just looked closer....looks like adjusters for the max position on locking mechanism or something like that! There appears to be nothing at the corners on the hinge side.

[Chew]

So I'm just waiting on the final quote from the fabricators (aluminium) to see what the damage for that would be. The guy their has come up with some really good design improvements though and for someone who's never kept fish he seems to have grasped exactly what it is I'm trying to acheive and the potencial problems. There will be "legs" on either end so that it sits propperly on the tank and can't slide off but these will be removable so if I wanted to exchange them for hanging fittings at a later date I could do. The heatsink will be screwn to the frame rather than welding as attaching the tiny LEDs and soldering will be more difficult with it attached to the frame. And welding costs more than 4 screws and tapped holes anyway!

Not contacted the plastic lot yet as I've simply not had any time this week but I will try send them an email instead. I'm a little concerned about the strength of gluing the corners and they will be carrying the weight of the heatsink etc but it's something I'll include and take their advice on. The last thing I need is for it to end up in the tank though after putting in all the effort to build it though.

On a slight side note.....yanky land is so big you can find a company to do just about anything.....including kits to make your own custom LED lighting http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/StoreFront

[dreamer]

So I'm just waiting on the final quote from the fabricators (aluminium) to see what the damage for that would be. The guy their has come up with some really good design improvements though and for someone who's never kept fish he seems to have grasped exactly what it is I'm trying to acheive and the potencial problems. There will be "legs" on either end so that it sits propperly on the tank and can't slide off but these will be removable so if I wanted to exchange them for hanging fittings at a later date I could do. The heatsink will be screwn to the frame rather than welding as attaching the tiny LEDs and soldering will be more difficult with it attached to the frame. And welding costs more than 4 screws and tapped holes anyway!

Not contacted the plastic lot yet as I've simply not had any time this week but I will try send them an email instead. I'm a little concerned about the strength of gluing the corners and they will be carrying the weight of the heatsink etc but it's something I'll include and take their advice on. The last thing I need is for it to end up in the tank though after putting in all the effort to build it though.

On a slight side note.....yanky land is so big you can find a company to do just about anything.....including kits to make your own custom LED lighting http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/StoreFront

Hi Chew,

I am not 100% certain, but I believe the gluing on uPVC type structures is a solvent weld similar to plumbing stuff. Whatever, it is certainly extremely strong, otherwise you would have double glazed doors/windows etc hanging in bits all over the show. On the down side, I doubt double glazing sections come with a thick enough wall to enable you to tap them for a screwed assembly for the heat sink etc.

Whether other plastics previously mentioned that do come with 3mm+ walls are available in solvent weldable varieties I am not sure, but you would think they must do, surely?

The aluminium version is sounding good mate....if you do end up going that route, ask the fella if he can get the whole thing anodised after it is all welded together, because it can be powder coated after anodising ( provided all parties are aware of what you require in advance, and so anodise it in an apropriate way) It would be soooo much more salt proof and altogether better if that were done. Apart from anything else, the powder coating would adhere better, with no loose 'blistered' areas where it has not stuck to the metal surface for various reasons. I have seen whole sides of frames etc. where the powder coating 'skin' is not actually adhering to the structure at all, merely relying on the fact that said skin is all one piece to hold it there...and eventually that fails, and is no longer 'all one piece'

You intend to have the heat sink anodised anyway, so it should not cost too much more to have the frame done as well...but do remember to tell him that the frame will also be powder coated, because they seal the anodised surface in parts that are not going to be powder coated, and I believe it will then be a problem for the coaters....check it out Chew.

Best of luck with it all mate

Cheers, Dave

[Chew]

Still waiting for the price to come back from the fabricators which is driving me mad as I really want to know now so if its not a goer I can look at other options. I've managed to find somewhere to buy some of the electrical components a fair bit cheaper though. The catch is I've chosen the latest and greatest Cree LEDs which I'll have to wait till Jan to get as the correct BIN aren't released till then. But the way my run up to xmas is panning out it'll be next year before I get the time to build this anyway. Would you believe I'll be spending most of xmas eve in the hospital! Atleast the money I'll save will offset the frame costs!

The plan is for the fabricators to build the thing then dissassemble and anodise it entirely to 20 microns so it should be entirely anodised in and out. I've been advised that the heatsink can't be powder coated or painted as it would drasticly impare its heat dissapation so that will have to stay purely anodised. For this reason (and the cost of welding) the heatsink will be screwn to the frame so I can remove it and then have the rest of the frame painted or powder coated if I decide thats what I'm doing. Only thing I'd need to do is re-tap the holes afterwards. I'm a little concerned what it will look like with the frame coated but the heatsink not though!

[dreamer]

Hi Chew,

Sounds fine mate, but what I was trying to point out was that when they anodise aluminium, what they are doing in essence (as I understand it) is to force the metal to oxidize at a vastly acellerated rate but in a regulated and controled manner, to achieve a uniform skin of oxide, which is much harder than the base metal. This layer is, at that point, porous...to render it inert, wateroof and useful, it is then sealed by one or the other of a range of options. I think I am right in saying that it should be left in that porous, unsealed state if it is to be powder coated.

I feel sure I remember that it is not so suitable for powder coating once it has been sealed by one or other of the other methods first...that was what I was suggesting that you check out before blindly getting the whole lot anodised and finished in one lot, and then belatedly discovering that the frame should have been treated differently to the heat sink.

If you are worried about the heat sink looking too different because it has not been powder coated, then It is also worth remembering that they can add a dye of your choice during the anodizing process to colour your item in a number of different options....from black to some very interesting metallic pastel shades...red, blue , green, yellow, silver and so on...the choice is yours

All good fun mate

Cheers, dave

[Chew]

Ahhhh I'm with you now! Very good point fella and something I'll ask them before pushing forward with the build. As before this is all very helpful and I appreciate it no end!

[coxy]

By the way just to make things more interesting for you anodising kits are available to do it your self on flea bay

Gray

[Chew]

I've been doing a bit more design work on the electronics side and I'm airing towards the new Cree XP-G range of LEDs rather than the Cree XR-E LEDs I was going to use before. There are several reasons but the main one is their power.....the XR-E LEDs produce 225 lumens for 3w of electricity which isn't to be sniffed at but the XP-G LEDs produce 345 lumens for the same amount of juice. Thats over 1.5 times the amount of light for about the same LED cost too.

To put it all in perspective then, a TMC Aquabeam 1000 has 10 XR-E LEDs which if they are driven to their max would be capable of producing somewhere in the region of 2250 lumens. However some are royal blue LEDs which have a much lower power output and so their documentation claims a more realistic 1200 lumens which in their words is "equivelent to a 150w metal halide". I suspect they arent running them full tilt either as they are only passively cooled and I don't think that would be enough if they were on 100%.

My little monster, if built using 16 XP-G LEDs driven to the full with 8 royal blue LEDs, will be capable of putting out something in the region of 5500 lumens That may sound like a little over kill but it will mean if it lives upto its theoretical capabilities then I will probably end up running it at less than full power.....something which will make the LEDs last even longer than their rated 10 years!

By the way just to make things more interesting for you anodising kits are available to do it your self on flea bay

Gray

[Chew]

Been let down big time by the aluminium fabricators who have just stopped answering my emails completely. So balls to them! Does anyone know a good aluminium fabricator?